What Went Wrong With Rand Paul? (not entirely negative!)

GH Wed, 12/30/2015 - 08:27

The rise of ISIS and especially the beheading of two American freelance journalists in 2014 has reawakened war hysteria, but even now all of the leading presidential candidates are careful to emphasize they don’t want boots on the ground because there is no support for such actions.

Terrorism is currently freaking people out but confidence and trust in government, law enforcement, and virtually all other societal institutions is are at historic lows, a confluence which bodes well for libertarian ideals of autonomy and DIY community building. The embrace of gay marriage and pot legalization, criminal justice reform (something which, to his immense credit, Rand Paul has been leading on), and school choice are not slackening and the past year has seen the beginning of pushback on all sorts of political correctness.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/30/what-went-wrong-with-ra...

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Isabella sj's picture

I talk to people all the time about the terrorist advertising subject.  For the most part people I talk to are NOT worried about terrorist. It is a given to them who is behind all the terror campaign. And they know polls are constructed, delivered and advertised to fit the program. Let's put some more money into the war machine.  As to the beheadings....they know all about the green screen as the Prez visits holly woo frequently and he even built himself his own TV studio in the WH.

Every radio and TV station with a "news" program sounds the same. Terror, terror, terrorist. Here, there and everywhere. I wonder if there are heroes of WW2 that could be interviewed that will tell us how TV, radio and newspaper advertised then. Terror, terror, terrorist? or Communist, Socialist, Anarchist? And don't forget the nuclear bomb.

Over saturation of a market idea makes it irrelevant.

 

I went to Popular Liberty looking for silver education and I got GOLD. Thank YOU Question more. https://youtu.be/3eA4OHW8v2k https://youtu.be/mgm8qYEFKwc

crabacado's picture

tks for this...

Terrorists here

Terrorists there

Bombs, Bangs Booms

Bodies everywhere

(no they're not)

Please don't feed the fears

On and on it goes

On and on it goes

You don't have to run faster than your fears

You just need to move a little quicker than your peers

Don't be afraid if the end seems near cuz it's not

Please

Please

Please

....don't feed the fears

A man who chops his own wood is warmed by it twice

laissez faire's picture

To oversimplify my position, I have always held that Ron Paul's devotees have incorrectly ascribed their personal epiphanies onto all voters/donors who supported the doctor.  That Ron Paul helped create fertile ground for a 'libertarian moment' but that the moment is a mile wide and an inch deep rather than the opposite.

Stated differently, that a big majority of moderately-to-very-serious libertarians do support Rand Paul but that a few million others who supported his father --- let's call them 'cafeteria libertarians' --- are really all about single issues or news headlines and they have gone to Trump or Cruz, and if offended by Trump's style, to Carson, who's still higher than Rand.

It means that the unlikely collapse of Trump/Cruz/Carson would still stand to benefit Rand greatly.  Maybe stocks will tank as Audit the Fed hits the news on the 16th, maybe something will happen in the debate, who knows.  Unlikely collapse, but still possible, which is why I donated again yesterday.

 

 

 

To shrink government is to grow peace and prosperity.

wackobird's picture

It seems counterintuitive, but in order to expand the base Rand needs to go Liberty strong, not Liberty lite. Compromise on principles is a worse political strategy than no principles at all- just look at Trump, who knows what he really stands for, he's just convincing people that he's gonna fix things. 

But the Trump voters are with him only because they're angry and nobody else has come around with convincing, consistently principled plans for fixing things. What excites folks is a consistent candidate who is not afraid to take positions on which he'll be criticized. Rand hasn't distinguished himself enough from Cruz, Trump and Carson.  He should be attacking them on their interventionist views while at the same time reaching out to young voters on the Sanders bandwagon, many of whom would prefer a non socialist who nevertheless did recognize and speak to the problems of crony capitalism and permawar.

Forget trying to appeal directly to GOP diehards. They have other choices more appealing to their world views. They'd come around to Rand once he achieved critical mass and looked like a viable candidate against Hillary, but Rand will never get there the way he's running his current campaign.

 

BaneMaler's picture

Notice how whenever Rand actually attacked a "reporter" the media ran it like it was some sort of campaign ending moment.  I think the likes of Luke and co. (they are friends with Abby btw) needed to match the likes of Adam and co. in their over the top individualistic legacy.  They don't care to be a part of any movement that doesn't involve them at the helm.

At best they are concern trolls, never truly supporting anyone.  They focus on minute details instead of the big picture.  Finding something wrong is their priority.  Rand answered their questions which were irrelevant to most people.  They then proceed to harass him and call out the Southern Avenger for being a goon for trying to talk them down from their tactics.  They can't be reasoned with, its all about them.

Why doesn't Luke work for Alex Jones for instance as they were working together for a time?  History shows the truth of these individuals.  They are completely out of any stream that isn't theirs.  I've never seen these guys really create much but they sure as hell will make sure they are part of the bomb throwing activities to blow everything up.  Good for them.  Bad for the rest of us who know that working together with a diverse coalition is essential to success.

You really take these folks at their word?  Their style of reporting is just like the MSM but they call it independent media.  No sorry, being antagonistic to your interviewer is not a winning quality.  It is childishness to the 9th the degree.  They are doing to the liberty movement what Trump does for Conservative politics.

In the end they become forgettable footnote and most people get tired of it and move along.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Never Be Defeated! https://youtu.be/XmTmTMcdxOs

harley9883's picture

I don't know what to think about it all. Clearly this same view, is what many older Ron Paul supporters feel. If the We are Change accusations are true, they certainly deserve answers.

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Danton's picture

Truly a side of Rand, not easily explained.

Having been a "Top 300" contributor to RonPaul2012 I was devastated by the shenanigans that went uncontested and unchallenged by the "Campaign".....Especially when Jesse "scored" that HUGE payoff, at mine, and others' expense.

My mailbox became cluttered, in the next year, with repeated requests for DONATIONS from Rand, from Ron on behalf of Rand, from John Tate, etc, etc, etc.

TRUST: Once lost....is not easily regained.

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Joeinmo's picture

number #1

after a campaign, donations fall off sharply so of course they are going to ask for more money more often for thing like C4L from hard core supporters.

#2 I do believe if Ron wanted to make big money he would have sold the campaign lists from C4L, instead they are in court trying to protect their donor info from the government that want all the info.

 

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harley9883's picture

Do we support this kind of behavior?  

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Joeinmo's picture

Rand not allowing it to happen to him

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Shonn33's picture

I wish father Paul would have done the same thing instead of letting them..LIE TO ALL OF US!!!!!

 

"Justice is indivisible, an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". MLK

TheTaoistTroll's picture

integrity than most people who work in corporate media.  That was not a source attack; it's an established truth that has proven to be true time and time again. Your not going to find any sympathy for those kind of people here. Heck, I think most of us would try to get Rachel Mad Cow or Bill O'rilley fired.

Most of the problems we have in America stem from being uninformed.  Even if its true that he tried to get a journalist fired it wouldn't both me. Most of them shouldn't or wouldn't be employed in a free market, or even if we archived their open and free society. Fluffiers for hire.

Those who are; are those whom are not.

harley9883's picture

Does this bother anybody here? Should a pass be given to all the other candidates, who behave in such a manner? Is this who we are?

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The Pen's picture

however, I do not take any media outlet at face value. I cannot presume to know why Rand reacted as he did, therefore I cannot speculate that his intentions were meant to be purposely detrimental to Abby Martin or not. Who knows why Rand endorsed Romney or why Ron Paul didn't stand up (as Rand is doing) and put the media in it's place. Ron Paul in my opinion didn't fight to the end, rather relegated himself to a separate forum, one that forwent the audience needing to be reached. Don't get me wrong, Ron Paul was my only choice, but Rand is doing what I always hoped Ron would do: fight the media and call them out for their treachery.

Patriots Unite!

wackobird's picture

Luke R and Abby Martin aren't exactly MSM shills for the establishment, they're alternative news personalities with which many libertarians, this one included, find much common ground.

The video and many of Rand's actions since announcing for the presidency have left me in the same camp as Nick G., whose analysis posted by the OP is spot on. Why has Rand failed to connect with libertarians to the degree Ron did? Trump is part of it, but the major reason is that Rand chose to run a campaign targeted towards non libertarian conservatives. His is a campaign, run by non libertarian political handlers, designed to appeal to a new, non libertarian, demographic. And it (so far) hasn't worked.

This in contrast to Ron, who only wanted to educate from the start, and who was so successful at reaching new minds that his candidacy, for a short time, became viable. But it's a mistake to think that Ron gave up early. He stopped only when it became clear that he had no chance. That some followers weren't ready to accept reality shouldn't be placed on Ron's back.

Joeinmo's picture

I'm a Constitutionalist, I'm not an open border, anti-Nation state globalist.

But if anybody was actually on the ground in 2008 and 2012, we got crushed by establishment folk claiming Ron was a libertarian and in the wrong party - it worked, we lost so many folks who might have supported Ron.  But now many of the so-called hard core supporters on the planet can't see what Rand was trying to do, bring those people who wouldn't vote for Ron into the fold.  They can't understand why Rand supported Romney...seriously were you people on the ground during the campaigns? Did you not see what happened in Oklahoma, Louisiana etc.?  I pretty much think we had maxed out as many Liberty voters as we were going to get, need to reach out to win.

But all one has to do is look to fake Ted Cruz to see that he did exactly the opposite of Rand and it's working for him.  He is a traditional Republican - war, interventionist, big brother, former Bush employee and campaign head that decided he would go the way of lots of Libertarianism in his campaign - Rand did the same thing, but instead of being all Libertarian and Constitutionalist, decided to push expanding the base and include mainstream Republican issues etc. like endorsing Mitch for example.  I ran into one of our caucus opponents from 2012 at the airport yesterday, he couldn't understand why Rand was not catching on with his base more, he is a Natcom member of the GOP was a national convention delegate etc, said he sat next to Rand last year, would vote for him, highly intelligent, said if he were Jeb's donors he would ask for for his money back and if Rubio falters by the time voting comes to Missouri  he is backing Rand, he won't vote Trump or Cruz.

You can see why Rand is bombing Rubio so hard right now, he has shown he can work with others, even though they have some differences - to me this is huge to get a Natcom supporter who can make the difference in an election. But what we have instead are people closing down PL because they hate Rand Paul? ...Or pushing left winger and socialized medicine champion and all around un-Constitutionalist Donald Trump?  You have the absolute BEST chance of a Liberty candidate winning a general election for President but you decide that because he wants to widen his chances by including main stream / establishment Republicans into his fold you won't vote for him - that's insane.

If Trump happens to win the GOP nomination (I don't think he will), he won't win the general because if he can't get people like me or even moderate establishment types to vote...he's done.

Even Michael from PL, once high on Trump said in one post that he no longer supports him, and let me say Ted Cruz is the wrong guy, another fake opportunist.

So for you anti-Rand people and pure snow types, it's called "strategy" and Rand thought you were smart enough to play along, I guess he misjudged all of you - that's too bad, because Trump the guy who claims to want to bring jobs back from Mexico  and China manufactures his clothes and tie line at both...can't be trusted on anything he says.

 

 

In my opinion, people like Luke Radowski and Abby are there to destroy the cause and not help or were ever there to help it. 

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DZdownUnder's picture

Outta the ball park! I concur.

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crabacado's picture

Abby and Luke and Adam and Jan and....et. al...

I do see them being somewhat selfish.....makes me think they are more Ayn Rand types...objectivist/selfish.

I think they move the cause forward in general, so whether they take part in some movement or not, they are trying to make the world a better place in their own way.

My personal life philosophy cannot allow me to have a problem with that.

That will be $0.02 cents.

A man who chops his own wood is warmed by it twice

Isabella sj's picture

Strategy has been "to save" the party from implosion. Rand is following his fathers' lead. Ron Paul said it many times "I'm trying to save the party". Consider when Rand started visiting colleges where "whites" are the minority if non at all add black churches to that mix.   Is it not true that a long time ago a lot of blacks were republicans?  What happened?  What turned black republicans into black Democrats?  Why were blacks so interested in learning how to read and write then and not NOW? Hm, makes you wonder...What's the strategy.

Rand is educating just like his Dad. He is rattling the DNA of the African citizen that got sold as goods sometimes by black themselves in Africa. Did blacks not want their freedom then?  He is rattling the DNA of the immigrants who moved to this country in search for opportunities.  The educational subject? Stand up, write your own victory story instead of begging gov officials for some hand me downs and freebies. Say NO to slavery of dependency from the gov. Take our country back!  A country that was formed by the independent thinker, the risk taker, the peace loving human who did not want to be a slave of the gov. The citizen that demanded the gov. belonged to the people not the other way around. We don't need the gov. to make us safe.

On the subject of Abby and Luke. I was a daily consumer of Abby's work. A lot I agreed with except for the support of abortion industry. She is young, has a lot to learn and time will change her just like it did to Dr. Gupta on the subject of natural medicine vs. big pharma . Gupta went from  big "Pharma" to God "Farm".  She has yet to learn the difference between "women's health and legal rights" to respecting Gods' creation  (another human being labeled fetus). She should write it one million times on the blackboard. A fetus is a living human being you Kill (abort) to show ONLY you have rights. Her method of delivery has to be polished. That's what Rand is honing in. A polished voter/citizen.

I remember knowing it all at 25, 35 and 45 and when I got to 50 I realized I knew nothing and now I'm flexible and open to explore, analyze and absorb new ideas even from the 15, 25, 35, and 45... That's what Rand is doing. Reawakening the United States of America's DNA. Which is my opinion should be called United States of North America as the Americas are 3 sisters N, C and S.  

On Luke I'll say he is another Jones making a buck.

I went to Popular Liberty looking for silver education and I got GOLD. Thank YOU Question more. https://youtu.be/3eA4OHW8v2k https://youtu.be/mgm8qYEFKwc

wackobird's picture

Joe, not everyone who criticizes Rand's failing political strategy is anti Rand.  Some of us just disagree with his strategy.

Rand's winning coalition doesn't include GOP regulars who will support whomever carries the GOP banner into the general, even hardcore neocon authoritarians like Rubio, Bush or Cristie. That's my problem with his strategy, it was doomed from the start.

If instead he had built on Ron's base and reached out to the anti war, anti crony capitalist left (like Abby and Luke) he'd likely have a sizable, energetic, committed following, just as Ron did. He'd have friendly commentators in the alternative press, just as Ron did. He'd have young minds listening to him.

My sense, based on his last debate performance, is that he's starting to come around to this way of thinking. I loved his calling Cristie the candidate for those who want WW III. The recent rise in his poll numbers is likely a few more libertarians coming back to him, based on this performance. He needs to continue in this vein rather than trying to appeal to diehard GOPers.

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