Unread

Libera_me's picture

if this 'following the badger hole' goes too much deeper.

Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.~~ Prov.30: 8 & 9

Libera_me's picture

Frankly you both have made good points, EOS1776 here are what I believe are yours:
\
"Let's face it: the French Resistance wanted to liberate France, not convert the entire world to 'Frenchism'. The difference is clear. Radical Islam/Islamism will not stop if we leave the Middle East (though I agree we should, and soon)."

The Radical root of Islam has at its core a violently triumphalist religious belief. Your explanation of the differences between the French Resistance and the Radical Jihadists' actions ought to open some eyes, as well.

Pawnstorm earns some points for the mention of the UK and the US creating much of the mess, and for suggesting we stop aiding all nations. He knows where I stand on the mess, though I disagree on the issue of Israel being a more of a criminal state than the other nations in the ME. (Frankly, I think the UN is more of a criminal state in its actions than most nations, although the USA and others give it a run for its money)

We all probably agree that aid to the ME nations essentially does far more harm than good, and the the UK and US created much of the mess: On that note of agreement, I provide this evidence of our agreed belief concerning the US and UK:

https://www.zeroaggressionproject.org/defense/history-lesson-u-s-militar...
https://www.zeroaggressionproject.org/defense/even-pentagon-admits-u-s-f...

Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.~~ Prov.30: 8 & 9

Libera_me's picture

or the Midwest to cut straight to the chase. I hope for his success.

Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.~~ Prov.30: 8 & 9

pawnstorm12's picture

Certainly they are among that group but I'm talking about several countries in that region who don't want western (non) values imposed on them.

Some of the nations which come to mind are as follows (and some are in Africa - not just the middle east)...

Iraq has been ruined by Bush and his henchmen invading and destabilizing that country. 1.3 million Christians lived in peace under Saddam. Today 1 million have fled and the others live in fear for their lives.

Iran just wants to be left alone. They have not attacked another country since 1798. They are not an aggressor nation but they want the right to defend themselves with nuclear weapons - And they have that right. And remember that in 1953 the U.S. (and England) overthrew an ELECTED LEADER in Iran and installed the evil Shah - a Hitler-type of leader who WE PROPPED UP for nearly 20 years.

Libya has been ruined by Obama and Hillary hitting them with a billion dollars worth of cruise missiles and destabilizing that nation too.

Afghanistan has never had a central government as we are trying to impose. They traditionally have been divided into about 33 provinces each with their own type of government and rulers. The idea of a western-type central government is unattractive to that nation. Also in Afghanistan the U.S. has hijacked the poppy trade for its own financial gain. The is why our soldiers are there.

Egypt has been ruled by a puppet of the U.S. government for 30 years. Mubarek was bought and sold by the U.S. do our bidding - much of which was very bad for Egyptian citizens.

The Palestinians are murdered and suppressed with the aid of U.S. made weapons and TONS of U.S. foreign aid to Israel. They have their backs against the sea with literally nowhere left to go.

Yemen is drone-bomed constantly by the U.S. CIA.

Somalia is under drone-bomb attack as well by the CIA.

And on and on it goes to the degree that these nations feel their future is threatened towards a way of life they have no interest in.

Again - they can't fight with an army on fields of battle - they have no chance against the U.S. and England.

So all they have left is to terrorize whoever they see as suppressors, occupiers, invaders and enemies to their cultures.

Until we heed that warning and leave the region nothing will change - and it will get worse here at home.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed and over-regulated and overrun by bureaucrats - the founders would be ashamed." -Ron Paul

jdayh's picture

IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED THIS VIDEO... YOU MUST . THIS IS ABOUT VINCE FOSTER... the person who was murdered during the clinton era, yet "called a suicide" --TRUMP HAD THE BODY EXHUMED!!! AND IT WAS FOUND HE WAS MURDERED ....(and there's more.. its on the video!)

"I predict a Donald Trump landslide"
Jdayh

enemyofthestate1776's picture

I am not a supporter of Israel. Also, my political and philosophical positions didn't come from a standard party-line, or from the realm of 'acceptable opinion', so there is no necessity for me to support Israel while standing against Political Islam.

I do think that the situation there is very, very complicated, but on the balance of moral judgements, I personally see the Israeli land-grab as a crime that needs to be reversed. Having said that, the Palestinian groups that attack Israel (and others), while they may be acting in the name of a just cause, their methods are brutal and they aren't doing much to help themselves. I also know they don't have many options. But Gandhi did teach us all that taking a non-violent approach is the pathway to gaining sympathy, and therefore support. But no, I'm not with the Israel government on this issue. I am sympathetic to Israeli civilians, however.

(Also, as a note here: If you meant the Palestinians in the Middle East in your original post, then sure, I'm far closer to your view. I still abhor their methods, but at least they have a more justified case for using them. But you phrased it as 'Middle East defenders', of which they are but one very specific group in one very specific situation.)

Everything else you wrote in your reply to me is bang-on, besides one point I disagree with. I agree that entangling alliances have been the USA's weak point, though some alliances have been somewhat beneficial, and I agree with Ron Paul's overall vision in this regard. Geopolitical manipulations are poison to a a free people, for both the target and the hunter.

Where I disagree is that, now that the US Government has made an extreme mess of the Middle East, allowing (and perhaps assisting) the rise of ISIS, if Trump is a legitimate Nationalist, then he would ensure that if the USA leaves the Middle East, they will leave it as they found it: not completely in crisis. And yes, this carries a major risk of being screwed up by whatever the USA might do, but I believe that the actions taken have indeed screwed things up there to the extent that allies in, say, Iraq may pay a heavy price, should the USA now cut and run. I think this is perhaps worse than at least working with some in the region to diminish Isis's power and ability to threaten others. Also, there's the pesky matter of all of those US-funded 'rebels' in Syria. When you create monsters, you own them. I do believe that the US government has a moral duty to at least help to restore a chance for freedom for the people who are currently being butchered or enslaved by ISIS. Failing that, pack up and go home.

"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

pawnstorm12's picture

And God bless Governor Burgum.

Maybe Dr, Ron Paul IS rubbing off on governments after all!!!

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed and over-regulated and overrun by bureaucrats - the founders would be ashamed." -Ron Paul

pawnstorm12's picture

...the middle east alone then they WILL leave us alone.

Of course this also means we STOP SUPPORTING THE ILLEGITIMATE STATE OF ISRAEL.

I know that's a hard pill for you to swallow and you'll come up with lots of dissenting views but I AM CORRECT because my views are BACKED BY HISTORY and FACTS as follows...

In 1948 the United States was complicit (along with England) in forcing over 700,000 Palestinians off their lands and shoving them into two little plots of land - which are even smaller today after Israel continues to steal what little land they have left.

I know you don't want to hear this truth - nor does any other stooge supporter of Israel.

They will NEVER admit that what we did in 1948 was WRONG and IMMORAL and that the consequences live on to this very day.

It's NO WONDER that the Palestinians won't be happy until they GET THEIR LAND BACK.

AND YOU WOULD FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME TOO if that had happened to you or your family.

WE should have FOLLOWED our founder's advice and AVOIDED ENTANGLING ALLIANCES which will haunt us until the end of tome...

...or until we CUT TIES with Israel and LEAVE THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST to its own DESTINY and SOVEREIGNTY - AS THEY FULLY DESERVE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed and over-regulated and overrun by bureaucrats - the founders would be ashamed." -Ron Paul

enemyofthestate1776's picture

and so I refuse to contribute to the ugliness on the internet by slighting you for it in a disrespectful way.

There is some truth in your comments, particularly in the geopolitical sense, in that I strongly agree that the USA and European nations need to engage with other nations in a peaceful way that promotes trade and leaves all other countries and peoples with their sovereign rights, rather than supporting dictators and attempting to 'civilise' other countries by telling them how to run their governments. This is indeed a great source of the tension we see. I also agree that the military-industrial complex has it's interests promoted and is manipulating events, along with the intelligence forces of the West, and others.

Comparing Islamic terrorists to the French Resistance, however, is an apples-to-oranges comparison. The French Resistance engaged in relatively very few attacks upon actual German soldiers, taking the lives of only a few hundred between the time of the formation of the various Resistance groups and the end of the Occupation of France. They mostly engaged in sabotage of trains, bridges, etc, targets that would stymie Nazi operations within France. They also did not, to my knowledge, have a large base of operations outside of France itself, and so the majority of their operations were using guerrilla warfare tactics to one purpose: to liberate their own homeland.

Islamic terrorists, on the other hand, travel to the West and deliberately target civilians. They engage in kidnappings, beheadings, they burn people alive, drown people, they kill children, they run people down in the street, they detonate bombs in public areas, they machine-gun crowds. Forces like Isis deliberately kill people for being gay, force Christians to convert or die, and massacre people, they take SLAVES. These are not people who see non-Muslims as people with rights.

Now in Iraq and Syria, I'm sure there are genuine 'freedom fighters' who are also Islamic, though in my research there seems to be scant evidence that any one group is better than another. It considerably helps one's understanding to realise that Islam itself advocates the practises that they engage in. Regardless, I don't necessarily condemn attacks upon occupying soldiers as illegitimate, if such is the case. The actions undertaken in the Middle East in the early 2000s by the US government undoubtedly stirred up a hornets nest. The challenge for someone who stands against those actions by the US government is to be as realistic as possible, and understand that they are indeed hornets. And that they follow a political doctrine embedded within a religion that believes that one day, the entire world will be an Islamic Caliphate.

So I respectfully ask that you spend some solid hours researching Islam, it's history, it's various interpretations, and the reality of it's aims and goals. There are, unfortunately, two sides to the story. I spent 10 years strongly defending Muslims against vilification by the media and political forces in the West. I can no longer do that in good faith.

In my opinion, the devils in the world that wish to relieve us of our freedoms are utilising Islamic terrorism to do so, though they do it by extension and by proxy. The terrorists and Islamists are merely pieces on a board, as are the US and European armies and air forces. The end goal was always to remove our European heritage: Liberty (and to prevent it's spread). And both the wars and the massive importation of Islamist forces into European countries are the active methods of destabilisation in use.

But let's face it: the French Resistance wanted to liberate France, not convert the entire world to 'Frenchism'. The difference is clear. Radical Islam/Islamism will not stop if we leave the Middle East (though I agree we should, and soon), because it's focus is now upon conquering the West. Whether they can or not is a different question, but they can certainly make us bleed on the way. I believe we have moved into what Bush was claiming originally: a clash of civilizations. What Bush unfortunately didn't seem to realise (or lied about) is that he triggered it.

"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

johncarter44's picture

Rob Dew interviews Dr. Nick Begich on how to break the zombie-like trance seen in so many people today.

"I bow my head to the beauty of music, the Blues carry my soul."

- Johncarter44

https://www.youtube.com/user/johncarter44

johncarter44's picture

Good Sun Day Morning Blues Call to Paul!

"I bow my head to the beauty of music, the Blues carry my soul."

- Johncarter44

https://www.youtube.com/user/johncarter44

johncarter44's picture

Former Army Ranger and hero of the Benghazi attack, Kris Paronto, discusses what's going on in DC and how the power structure is moving against Trump.

"I bow my head to the beauty of music, the Blues carry my soul."

- Johncarter44

https://www.youtube.com/user/johncarter44

Libera_me's picture

Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.~~ Prov.30: 8 & 9

pawnstorm12's picture

...with my money when he ran for Senate - even tho I could not vote for him since I don't live in Kentucky.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed and over-regulated and overrun by bureaucrats - the founders would be ashamed." -Ron Paul

johncarter44's picture

Good Sun Day Morning Blues Call to Paul!

"I bow my head to the beauty of music, the Blues carry my soul."

- Johncarter44

https://www.youtube.com/user/johncarter44

Pages