Is hell exothermic or endothermic ?

mothercirce Sat, 01/23/2016 - 11:15
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Philosophy

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:

1. If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.

2. If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

So which is it?

 

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13comments
mothercirce's picture
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TheTaoistTroll's picture
TheTaoistTroll
01/24/2016 - 18:51

from back in the day. The real question is whether the universe is a hologram or not.

Those who are; are those whom are not.

Sola_Fide's picture
Sola_Fide
01/24/2016 - 16:01

"First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass."

 

That is not a Biblical postulation.   Souls are immaterial, thus they have no mass.

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Micah's picture
Micah
01/24/2016 - 00:10

Seriously, though, the assumption that no soul leaves hell is one I strongly disagree with.  In fact, I believe God will be ultimately victorious in reaching every last prodigal in there through His Love and grace, so that it will eventually empty out completely.

But enjoyed the humor all the same. :)

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Sola_Fide's picture
Sola_Fide
01/24/2016 - 16:02

That's not Biblical.  The Bible clearly says that souls will suffer eternal separation from God.

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Micah's picture
Micah
01/25/2016 - 01:01

...it is Biblical if you take the passages that speak about all being reconciled at face value (Col 1, etc.) and also understand that the Greek aionion, which English translations sometimes have as 'eternal', is actually better translated as 'age-enduring' or 'of the age to come'.

I'd highly recommend you check out Thomas Talbott's Inescapable Love of God or Gregory MacDonald (aka Robin Parry)'s Evangelical Universalist if you'd like to see some detailed arguments for this view.

In the meantime, consider the following three propositions:

1.  God desires that all persons be saved.

2.  God will accomplish saving all whom He desires to be saved.

3.  Some persons will be eternally lost.

Now, all three of these propositions cannot be simultaneously true.  Yet there are a plethora of verses which, when taken at face value in the English, can be cited in support of each one of these propositions.

Calvinists hold to 2 and 3 and reject 1 -- basing it on Biblical arguments.

Arminians hold to 1 and 3 and reject 2 -- basing it on Biblical arguments.

Likewise, Universalists hold to 1 like the Arminians and to 2 like the Calvinists, but therefore reject 3 -- also basing it on Biblical arguments.

So each camp has some work to do to explain why they can reject the 'face value' interpretation of the passages which seem to uphold the proposition they reject.  There are 'problem texts' for each position.  The books I've mentioned above do a good job fleshing out the positive Biblical arguments for the Universalist position as well as explaining how the 'hell texts' are better interpreted, from that point of view, and from the view of the actual Greek words used.

Anyway, I'll leave it there for now.  :)

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Sola_Fide's picture
Sola_Fide
01/25/2016 - 01:00

"Aonion" is used for eternal life too. Is eternal life not really eternal?

Also, when the Bible uses the Greek for for "all" (pas), pas is always modified by the context of the passage. Pas in 1 Corinthians, as in the rest of the New Testament, does not mean "every single thing" or "every single person" etc.

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Micah's picture
Micah
01/25/2016 - 01:44

...the punishment are 'of the age to come', 'aionion'.  It isn't really an adjective describing some temporal duration or quantity, but rather a quality of the life and of the punishment.  But other passages besides this make it clear that the life found in God does continue forever -- it doesn't depend on 'aionion' meaning 'eternal'.

From Robin Parry's Evangelical Universalist:

"Some reply that if the punishment of the age to come is not everlasting, then neither is the life of the age to come. The reasoning here is clearly fallacious, for one cannot infer from the claim that the punishment of the age to come is not everlasting that the life of the age to come is not everlasting. Chris Marshall claims that 'the point is not that the fire will burn forever, or the punishment extend forever, or that the life continue forever, but rather that all three will serve to establish the rule of God.' This text [Matt 25:31-46] does not clarify the duration of either the punishment or the life, but texts like 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 clearly establish the indestructible nature of resurrection life."

As for the meaning of 'all':

Colossians 1:15-20

 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

When verse 15 says that Christ is the firstborn 'of all' (Greek pases) creation, does that not mean all of creation?

When verse 16 says that 'all things' (Greek panta) in heaven and earth, visible, invisible, etc. were created by Him and through Him and for Him -- does this not mean all created things?

It seems reasonable to me that verse 20 is referring to the same 'all things' (panta), whether on earth or in heaven.

Also in Romans 5:18

18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Does the condemnation to 'all men' not mean all?  Seems reasonable to me that the 'all men' for the justification would also mean all, being a parallel construct.  (Greek pantas for both.)

I'd also argue that Romans 11:32 has a similar parallel construct:

32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.  (Again Greek pantas for both.)

But this isn't a matter of just citing a few proof texts here and there.  It's more about what fits best with the overall flow and theme of the whole Biblical account from Creation to Exile to Christ's life, death, resurrection, to New Creation.  Again, I do heartily recommend the above two books for further hashing out of that larger case to be made.

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HVACTech's picture
HVACTech
01/23/2016 - 18:44

there is no such thing as "cold". and, Heat only flows in one direction.  :)

Enthalpy is defined as a thermodynamic state function, designated by the letter "H", that consists of the internal energy of the system (U) plus the product of pressure (p) and volume (V) of the system: Since U, p and V are all functions of the state of the thermodynamic system, enthalpy is a state function.

or, total heat content. :)  this is probably not a subject you should play around with. grasshopper.

for it requires an understanding of the word "state"  

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mothercirce's picture
mothercirce
01/23/2016 - 19:25

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BaneMaler's picture
BaneMaler
01/23/2016 - 15:57

Or maybe its not.

Couple things to point out in the analysis though:

I'd like to see a list of your "religions" that suggest that people who are not "members" are going to hell.  My beliefs for instance do not require people to be a part of any "religion" but they do require faithful to belief on Christ.  A member at my church is not guaranteed a trip to Heaven.  Faith and religion are like night and day. Just to clarify terms.

Additionally how does not being a member of a certain religion, and instead being a member of the right religion, if that is the prerequisite to go to heaven, cause all souls to go to hell?  Just because 9 out of 10 people get the answer wrong doesn't mean that 1 person can't have the right answer.

As for your thoughts on hell, which should be Hell if it exists:  Does Hell exist on our plane of existence?  Can you take a walk there?  What is the gravity like in Hell, is there any?  If all of these are unknowns then how can you apply your understanding of science in our universe to a place that you can't travel to?  A place that arguably the laws of nature don't apply.  A place that is outside of all space and time does not have to comply with our ideas of what works in this dimension.  The notion that God operates according to the rules of our dimension is a description of a finite god not an infinite one.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Never Be Defeated! https://youtu.be/XmTmTMcdxOs

BaneMaler's picture
BaneMaler
01/23/2016 - 15:52

Or maybe its not.

Couple things to point out in the analysis though:

I'd like to see a list of your "religions" that suggest that people who are not "members" are going to hell.  My beliefs do not require people to be a part of any "religion" but they do require faithful to believe on Christ.  Faith and religion are like night and day. Just to clarify terms.

Additionally how does not being a member of a certain religion, and instead being a member of the right religion, if that is the prerequisite to go to heaven, cause all souls to go to hell.  Just because 9 out of 10 people get the answer wrong doesn't mean that 1 person can't have the right answer.

As for your thoughts on hell, which should be Hell if it exists:  Does Hell exist on our plane of existence?  Can you take a walk there?  What is the gravity like in Hell, is there any?  If all of these are unknowns then how can you apply your understanding of science in our universe to a place that you can't travel to?  A place that arguably the laws of nature don't apply.  A place that is outside of all space and time does not have to comply with our ideas of what works in this dimension.  The notion that God operates in our dimension is a description of a finite god not an infinite one.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Never Be Defeated! https://youtu.be/XmTmTMcdxOs

mwstroberg's picture
mwstroberg
01/23/2016 - 16:49

Come on, chill out. It IS a joke and should be understood as such.

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BaneMaler's picture
BaneMaler
01/23/2016 - 17:36

fallacies common in the views on other peoples beliefs.

 

Like memes saying Somali pirates are indicative of a libertarian society.  We can laugh at such things but are their foundations in truth.  I did find this funny but equally wouldn't I be a hypocrite if I didn't find humor in the pirates?

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Never Be Defeated! https://youtu.be/XmTmTMcdxOs

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