Can I make an unwelcome point

Donald Trump Sat, 01/09/2016 - 21:58

On a serious note.

This is the most anti-establishment election cycle in memory, in most of our lives. The voters are enraged, enthralled with outsider candidates. Old Bernie Sanders with his wild hair and self professed socialism is ready to thrash Hillary if he had any energy or desire to win and despite the media parade of Hillary inevitability.

On the Republican side, no normative establishment candidate can break single digits, and the combined Trump/Cruz/Carson/Rand bloc (shall we include Rand? Okay, we will) totals are well past 50%.

There is a TON of money sloshing around on the internet/alt media for the "free market" side -- everything from Mises to Cato to the Beck types to the business news Santellis and Napolitanos, to the Paul media. The libertarian voice is large, much larger than its actual numbers merit and warrant by any stretch, because it is lavishly funded by interested parties (rich old guys).

There is a big, loud libertarian presence in the alt media. There's the Reason mag wing, the SouthPark fans, the million drones who say they're "fiscally conervsative/socially liberal." The aging, now mature tea party. What's his name congressman everyone used to be excited about? I forget.

All this money, attention, effort, all this energy to convince the disaffected public that the answer is "free markets," less regulations, more capitalism and less redistribution, more free trade, more breakdown of national borders, sovereignty and industrial protections, more individualism and less organization (unions, communities, etc.)

And despite all that, the actual people and grassroots are crowding stadia with Bernie and Trump supporters.

And you guys (and the old DP community) -- who can't convince even the most upset, angry voting public they've ever had, after years of tea party/free market preparation, editors in leather jackets and mustached john stossels promoting cool libertarian chic -- after all that, you can't break six %.

And you same true believers believe you can convince the future American body politic -- demographically and immigration-ally from latin America and the middle east -- of your libertarian nostrums, when you can't convince relatively well off, relatively individualistic and ethnically rootless Americans with no culture of real groupism/tribalism.

It boggles the mind what you will convince yourselves of in ideology/utopian hope!

Trump, out.

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Libera_me's picture

You have made some valid points in your  in your post. I grant that we have not convinced even a plurality that Rand is the best candidate, and the desire for someone who is flamboyant, showy, and speaks his mind bluntly is a strong factor. The soft - spoken (voice wise, not rhetorically) Obama has turned folks off to that type of personality, and Rand is what he is. But Trump is as big a part of the corporatism/welfare block as anyone else. Case in point: Democrats are switching parties to vote for him! Sanders is likely to get the DNC nomination, as Hillary's man-stand has turned off women and others. (not to mention her corruption!). So once again, I will focus on local issues, but will likely vote third party again for president. (as I have done for two election cycles, and my best friend has for three.)

Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.~~ Prov.30: 8 & 9

Donald Trump's picture

Trumps organization is private it isn't corporate. (Do you object to corporations/corporate organization - that's a worthy discussion libertarians do not have often) So I'm not sure what you mean by corporatism/welfare block.

Any big real estate developer especially commercial buildings will be dealing with lawyers and government to build.. are you objecting to this? This is the law the local people voted in and people who want to build work with it.

The reason some democrats are going for Trump is the same reason a bunch of Republicans will go for Hillary if Trump is nominated, self interest. Better trade representation and better immigration enforcement will benefit working people and harm the fortune 500/K street. Simple as that.

Trump is anything but corporatist in the sense of doing what corporations want (looting of capital in areas with high wages, constant access to cheap/slave labor, the ability to abuse population zones without protections, to pollute and violate social norms that exist in their home countries).

Corps hate Trump for that reason and they'd settle for Rand over Trump. He may be corporatist in a different sense, where he'd use presidential power to cajole big businesses to serve the national interest better. But that's old school and most of the industrialized nations of Europe and Asia do that. It's a sign of less corruption, not more. USA is a backwater banana republic which only serves the elite.

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Joeinmo's picture

They are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to politics and government, would not consider them anti-establishment, just basically causal voters who get their info from what they see on TV.  Duck Dynasty types -I doubt any of them vote in our primary.

They will vote in the general election, and then they will ask "where is Trump, how do I vote for Trump" and the old lady working the polls is going to say he lost in the primaries.

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crabacado's picture

A though out post. Where'd that come from?

Kudos for a not troll post

A man who chops his own wood is warmed by it twice

Donald Trump's picture

Great posy Crabacado! I love your work!

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wackobird's picture

You have a point, to a point.  Ron Paul grew the Liberty movement exponentially in 08 and especially 2012, but it's clear now that a good portion of his surprisingly large support came not from new libertarians but from those just looking for someone, anyone, with a message that differed from the status quo.

I call 'em the "just fix it" voters.  They know something's not right but don't have a clue about how to fix it because  they haven't bothered to attempt to understand the causes of the problems.  They just want it fixed and they'll jump in bed with the shiniest non-establishment mouthpiece that comes along, even though there is no depth to his policy prescriptions. This is YOUR base, oh coiffured one - the ignorant, "just fix it" guys and gals. Enjoy 'em while you have 'em 'cause they'll drop you quicker than you drop wives as soon as a shinier mouthpiece shows up on the scene.

TheTaoistTroll's picture

That we may have presumed with little, if any, justification that the disenfranchised components that form  our particular segment of society are all libertarian.  We may have an altered perception of reality because we get our news from alternative media, not that dissimilar how people have a particular set of beliefs, or lack of any sense of what going on in the world, with respect to main media outlets. 

While alternative media is obviously infinitesimally better in all matters of substance and facts and  conform closer to reality; we should take great care to not repeat the same mistake that we all once held: that we once thought that main stream media conformed to reality and represented the truth-- that our sense of the world is still distorted even though alternative media is superior, it still isn't representative of actual reality... it's still to far from the truth. 

I always will appreciate well thought out posts and comments and I do agree with most of what you have clearly stated. 

However, don't presume to take crowded stadium as evidence to suggest anything. Even Ron had large crows and it didn't translate into victory, or to make a claim from a lack of evidence: crowded stadiums to suggest anything.

Moreover, don' under any circumstance use polling data as grounds to suggests who is winning right now.

Furthermore, It is much easier to manipulate the populace by resorting to fear, raw emotion and volumes of misinformation.  You can say that we lack the the immorality to archive our ends by those means. Those means don't change hearts at all. Hence, to charges hearts requires perseverance and putting forth strong valid arguments, not positive hyperbole. .

Those who are; are those whom are not.